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advice needed
#1
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Greetings everyone,

You can call me Lilith or Lilly, I don't care either way. I write this message on here today because I am seeking advice on how to deal with a dangerous man: Derrick Jensen. For any of those who don't know much about Derrick Jensen besides his work with DGR what you need to know is that he is dedicated to harassing trans women. 

When there was a trans woman simply trying to use a female space both he and Lierre Keith pushed her out of the organization. I have also heard he's worked with Cathy Brennan at Gender Identity Watch to harass and dox even more trans women. Jensen will be speaking at a local library and me and some organizers are going to protest his appearance. 

This is where y'all come in. I know little about anti-civ/primitivist thought (although much more than my allies) and I don't know what tactics Jensen may use that I won't be prepared for. Any tips for what to watch out for from him would be greatly appreciated.
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#2
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:02:56 +0000, 07:02 AM)Lilith Wrote: Greetings everyone,

You can call me Lilith or Lilly, I don't care either way. I write this message on here today because I am seeking advice on how to deal with a dangerous man: Derrick Jensen. For any of those who don't know much about Derrick Jensen besides his work with DGR what you need to know is that he is dedicated to harassing trans women. 

When there was a trans woman simply trying to use a female space both he and Lierre Keith pushed her out of the organization. I have also heard he's worked with Cathy Brennan at Gender Identity Watch to harass and dox even more trans women. Jensen will be speaking at a local library and me and some organizers are going to protest his appearance. 

This is where y'all come in. I know little about anti-civ/primitivist thought (although much more than my allies) and I don't know what tactics Jensen may use that I won't be prepared for. Any tips for what to watch out for from him would be greatly appreciated.

I would suggest seeking advice from those who are directly privy to the situation rather than seeking it from anonymous strangers on the internet who have never met Jensen, do not necessarily frequent the same social circles (or even reside in the same part of the globe) and have no basis on which to evaluate the veracity of these claims. If he's doing the things you say he's doing, then such behaviours would clearly be reprehensible; but, since I have no knowlede or personal stake in this situation other than what I'm hearing from you, I am speaking from a position of complete blindness and have nothing to add beyond what I've said here.
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#3
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 18:42:19 +0000, 06:42 PM)Matt Wrote: I would suggest seeking advice from those who are directly privy to the situation rather than seeking it from anonymous strangers on the internet who have never met Jensen, do not necessarily frequent the same social circles (or even reside in the same part of the globe) and have no basis on which to evaluate the veracity of these claims. If he's doing the things you say he's doing, then such behaviours would clearly be reprehensible; but, since I have no knowlede or personal stake in this situation other than what I'm hearing from you, I am speaking from a position of complete blindness and have nothing to add beyond what I've said here.

It's mostly that I have no idea what sort of arguments that he would use as an anti-civ thinker. People I know are well acquainted with the trappings of other ideologies but I doubt that they have any idea what primitivism is. I imagine that if he came at them with his theory they wouldn't be prepared for it and just resort to labelling him a flat earther because as far as me and everyone else sees it that's what anti-civ people seem like.

I guess what I'm asking is when he tries to advocate his transphobia how would I counter it without just reaffirming his belief that we're all just "slaves to civilization and mass society" or whatever.
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#4
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:46:22 +0000, 08:46 PM)Lilith Wrote:
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 18:42:19 +0000, 06:42 PM)Matt Wrote: I would suggest seeking advice from those who are directly privy to the situation rather than seeking it from anonymous strangers on the internet who have never met Jensen, do not necessarily frequent the same social circles (or even reside in the same part of the globe) and have no basis on which to evaluate the veracity of these claims. If he's doing the things you say he's doing, then such behaviours would clearly be reprehensible; but, since I have no knowlede or personal stake in this situation other than what I'm hearing from you, I am speaking from a position of complete blindness and have nothing to add beyond what I've said here.

It's mostly that I have no idea what sort of arguments that he would use as an anti-civ thinker. People I know are well acquainted with the trappings of other ideologies but I doubt that they have any idea what primitivism is. I imagine that if he came at them with his theory they wouldn't be prepared for it and just resort to labelling him a flat earther because as far as me and everyone else sees it that's what anti-civ people seem like.

I guess what I'm asking is when he tries to advocate his transphobia how would I counter it without just reaffirming his belief that we're all just "slaves to civilization and mass society" or whatever.


Your original post had nothing to do with the ideology of primitivism, so I'm not really sure why you're bringing it up all of a sudden. If he's as dangerous as you say he is, then you have more important things to worry about than the ideological tenets of anarcho-primitivism.
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#5
Transphobia has nothing to do with anti-civ or primitivism. And Derrick Jensen isn't a primitivist—he's repeatedly spoken out against primitivism.

I agree with Matt. I didn't know Jensen is harassing trans women but if he is doing that, I admire your taking direct action to deal with a bad situation, but I don't think that a debate on philosophy or politics, or whatever, is going to strengthen your case. If Jensen is a toxic person, you need to deal with that on a community level. This is more important than any anti-civ theory.

As a side-note, I don't think attempting to insult us is an effective way of soliciting our advice. It is also not very nice.
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#6
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:14:02 +0000, 09:14 PM)alexander Wrote: As a side-note, I don't think attempting to insult us is an effective way of soliciting our advice. It is also not very nice.

If you're referring to the flat earther comment I wasn't saying that I think that anti-civ people are flat earthers, I was merely saying that there are people out there who might see you that way. As many disagreements as I have with anti-civ people I still think you're WAY more reasonable than flat earthers.
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#7
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:21:33 +0000, 09:21 PM)Lilith Wrote: I was merely saying that there are people out there who might see you that way.

And, for some nebulous reason, I'm apparently supposed to care what they think?
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#8
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:03:01 +0000, 10:03 PM)Zhachev Wrote: Transphobia and misogyny can be attacked rhetorically without the need to bring any anti-civ issues into it. If you want to discuss transsexuality and pansexuality as it relates to pre-civ history or anti-civ ideas, go for it! Your time here would be better spent this way, methinks.

Yeah I originally wanted to get on this site because I'm a Marxist and very much not anti-civ however there are some genuine questions that I have for primitivists. Besides, I got into contact with John Zerzan and he and I are going to be meeting to discuss strategy.
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#9
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:10:17 +0000, 10:10 PM)Lilith Wrote:
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:03:01 +0000, 10:03 PM)Zhachev Wrote: Transphobia and misogyny can be attacked rhetorically without the need to bring any anti-civ issues into it. If you want to discuss transsexuality and pansexuality as it relates to pre-civ history or anti-civ ideas, go for it! Your time here would be better spent this way, methinks.

Yeah I originally wanted to get on this site because I'm a Marxist and very much not anti-civ however there are some genuine questions that I have for primitivists. Besides, I got into contact with John Zerzan and he and I are going to be meeting to discuss strategy.


Something you should keep in mind is that "anti-civ" is not a unified school of thought. Rather, it is a series of divergent although loosely related theoretical tendencies of which John Zerzan and the anarcho-primitivists are but one very specific permutation - regardless of how much they might like to claim a corporate monopoly on the term.
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#10
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:21:05 +0000, 10:21 PM)Zhachev Wrote: I don't think there are any APs here?

I don't really even know. I don't presume to speak for anyone but myself.
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