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What Animal Liberation Really Means
#1
https://medium.com/rewild-earth-toward-p...13bcd1516f

«For [domestic animals] Animal Liberation means three things:
  1. the entire human species embraces veganism completely. (This eliminates the demand for animal products.)
  2. all domestic animals currently alive are placed in sanctuaries where they are lovingly and respectfully taken care of for the rest of their natural lifespan
  3. all breeding is brought to a grinding halt. No additional domestic animals should be brought into existence.»
«How do we achieve Animal Liberation for wildlife?
I see only four possible solutions for saving wildlife on this planet.
  1. Perhaps humans can transform civilization into a radically different one that exists in complete harmony with nature and doesn’t destroy anything. (This is highly unlikely as humans have not demonstrated the ability nor the desire to achieve such a noble feat.)
  2. Since it is human civilization that is destroying wildlife and natural ecosystems, the end of human civilization will save wildlife and the natural world. Humans could exist as wild beings, instead of within an artificially constructed “civilization”.
  3. The extinction of the human species. This would restore Earth to her original pristine, wild state.
  4. Veganism
«Earth and human civilization can be saved with these three things:
  1. every human embraces veganism
  2. a massive reduction in human population
  3. a monumental alteration of the nature of civilization- instead of being based on technology, industry, and the commodification of living beings (animals), humans would become more “natural” and “wild”. They would learn how to become a harmonious part of a thriving ecosystem, instead of dominating and destroying everything.»

I thought this was an interesting piece. I'm not endorsing it by putting it here, but I think it's worth thinking about. I do however agree with aspects of it.
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#2
I think that the error that many "animal liberationists" and others make is to treat our species -- homo sapiens -- and human beings (i.e. social animals) as one and the same.

Quote:
  1. every human embraces veganism
  2. a massive reduction in human population

One may compare and contrast these points with two points published by the English Communist Party in its Manifesto for the General Election:

1. Zero child bearing [the implication being, not that there is "a massive reduction in human population" but that our species ceases to exist at all];
7. Cessation of all animal production;

I do not endorse these points, I am merely bringing them to the attention of readers.

One must question whether the separation of animals into "domestic" and "wild" is truly valid. I have in mind the recent desertion of a "domestic" cow into a herd of "wild" bison. At what point did the animal transform from domestic to wild?

One further question arises in my mind by the article when it asks how "human civilisation" is to be saved. Can the world as it now exists truly be described as human civilisation when all human relations are arbitrated by money? Is this not the antipathy of humanity, inhumanity in fact?

All said and done, however, this is a very interesting document and deserves widespread publication, which of course it will not receive.
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#3
Humans are animals, and conversely animals are human -- assuming we treat them as such.

The only reduction in the population of our species that can occur, which does not entail destructive power, is that of free will: for each of us to decide that our time on Earth has run its course and that we will bear no more children. This is the means of reducing the human population that the author of the Manifesto had in mind. I think that this is predicated upon the "end of capitalism" as you put it, Zachev.

I will add the anarcho-primitivist sub-reddit to my list of subscriptions and maybe comment on the thread you refer to.
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#4
Population growth is inherently tied to production. If we stop producing, and start idling, we'll also probably stop reproducing at unsustainable rates.

There's two distinct types of people who are labelled misanthropes. One group is those who would like to limit procreation and so forth—I propose we call these authoritarian misanthropes. Then there is the group who simply welcome the apocalypse, as a sort of secular second-coming that will wash us clean, and let us rebuild—I propose calling these armchair misanthropes. The latter group typically merely "welcomes" the apocalypse, and enjoy it when lives are lost in hurricanes, and so forth. The former think we should artificially limit procreation via social stratification. The former are vile, the latter merely defeatist (or "surrenderist", as JZ would say).
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#5
(Sat, 03 Feb 2018 12:55:33 +0000, 12:55 PM)alexander Wrote: Population growth is inherently tied to production. If we stop producing, and start idling, we'll also probably stop reproducing at unsustainable rates.

True

(Sat, 03 Feb 2018 12:55:33 +0000, 12:55 PM)alexander Wrote: There's two distinct types of people who are labelled misanthropes. One group is those who would like to limit procreation and so forth—I propose we call these authoritarian misanthropes. Then there is the group who simply welcome the apocalypse, as a sort of secular second-coming that will wash us clean, and let us rebuild—I propose calling these armchair misanthropes. The latter group typically merely "welcomes" the apocalypse, and enjoy it when lives are lost in hurricanes, and so forth. The former think we should artificially limit procreation via social stratification. The former are vile, the latter merely defeatist (or "surrenderist", as JZ would say).

And then there is a third group that make the conscious choice not to procreate without a hint of misanthropy. I do not count amongst this group but I have the utmost respect for their choice if made freely without societal pressure to do so.
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#6
I used to be an angry young man; now I am a placid old one. Thankfully the youth is coming up to take my place; but my perception is that the youth of today has dispensed with anger and become resolute and determined to mash down Babylon, and take over:

[Image: http://www.autistici.org/tridnivalka/wp-...zueli.jpeg]
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#7
The guru answers a question with another question. A little bit like in the manner of psychoanalysis whereby one psychological issue is resolved only to open up another.

I used to get angry/frustrated when I travelled to France and could not understand what the people were talking about. When listening to the song by Luca I am no longer frustrated/angry that I cannot understand her words, more bemused. My anger has been dissipated more than it has been resolved.

I had a friend called Luca who overdosed on adulterated narcotics. The song got me to thinking about Luca and the little flat he lived in in a mews in London. I then recalled that the psychoanalyst I went to as a teenager also worked out of a mews in the same part of London. I wondered to myself whether it may have been the same street. I checked on Google to see if there was more than one mews in Belsize Park. Whilst Googling, I stumbled upon the very same flat my friend used to live in. It is a tiny one bedroom flat and it has now been renovated. It is advertised on the rental market for £1800/month. It makes one wonder whether the system exterminated Luca simply to valorise itself at a higher rate. There is no conspiracy, just the normal workings of capital.

Good day Zachev et al
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#8
Thanks for your offer of help. Can you tell me how you format a quote in the way that you formatted that quote by the shyster Krishnamurti so that it appears as follows?

Jiddu Krishnamurti Wrote:Anger may spring from physical or psychological causes.

Do you do it manually by adding the square brackets, equals mark, inverted comma and oblique or is there another simpler method?
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#9
KyXen Wrote:the shyster Krishnamurti

I don't know that this man was a shyster but alarm bells rang when I read Theosophy on Wikipedia. I did go on to read that he went on to "disavow" this organisation (merely the equivalent of Christian missionary societies but aimed specifically at India) and yet he still rode its coat tails.
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#10
As I said I don't know this man or his writings. All I have to judge him on are photographs of him and the short passage you posted here, which I don't happen to agree with. I don't subdue my anger. If it occurs I expel it by shouting, throwing things around, smashing things up, etc. I hope I can learn to subdue my anger but as yet not.

My maternal family is Jewish. I am not Rastafarian. I assert that Haile Selassie and Menen Asfaw are god incarnate. My dad is Scottish Presbytarian.

Thanks for the help on the internet thing. Let's see if I have learnt. The text is just about the only thing I know by heart; I hope I get it right:

K Wrote:The civilisation and justice of bourgeois order comes out in its lurid light whenever the slaves and drudges of that order rise against their masters...

P.S. I guess I'm not such a placid old man as I pretended I am, and I don't really want to learn to subdue it.
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