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Anti-civ journal
#21
Alex Wrote:I want to meet some friends (or future friends) who are interested in doing an anti-civ journal—nothing more specific than that.

I would love to help contribute to an anti-civilisation journal. I am happy to dump all my ideological baggage vis-a-vis the class struggle because frankly I think that the battle for democracy has been all but won, that the producers of wealth are the dominant class, and hence class divisions are finished with. There is only humanity and we are in a whole heap of shit without ANY clear way to get out of it.

What I would ask of any collaborators is that we start afresh without recourse to previous theorists.

...In that case we do not confront the world in a doctrinaire way with a new principle: Here is the truth, kneel down before it! We develop new principles for the world out of the world’s own principles. We do not say to the world: Cease your struggles, they are foolish; we will give you the true slogan of struggle. We merely show the world what it is really fighting for, and consciousness is something that it has to acquire, even if it does not want to.

The reform of consciousness consists only in making the world aware of its own consciousness, in awakening it out of its dream...
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#22
alexander Wrote:
Zhachev Wrote:I think there are basically three journals/zines relevant to this project right now, in the sense of overlap of topics of interest. Two immediately worth mentioning: Black and Green Review and Black Seed. None of this is news to folks, I'm aware. But I personally feel there is plenty of intellectual space for another project. I have critiques of the aforementioned projects which I don't need to air out here, or now, but I'm quickly realizing they would not be the place for my writing. I'm all in for this no matter what form it takes. We should do an Anti-civ journal.
Full agreement here.

I will stress the point that I see this as a project between friends, and that the friendships forged are primary, the "product" is secondary. That's my attitude.

Hi everyone,

I've been deliberately easing back on my participation in these forums just because I'm generally trying to reduce the amount of time I spend online. With that said, I've been checking back occasionally to see if there's any threads where I want to weigh in, and this happens to be one of them. Like Zhachev, I too have my critiques of both BAGR and Black Seed (one more so than the other) but, unlike him, I have my suspicions that another anti-civ journal might be just reinventing the wheel. It's possible that one of my reasons for saying this is just that I personally don't feel like I have the time, resources, or inclination to help get a project of this magnitude off the ground, particularly when we're all separated by such vast geographic distances. After reading Kevin Tucker's summary of his difficulties in getting BAGR up and running, I'm quite convinced that, beyond maybe submitting the occasional piece of writing, this isn't the sort of project that I can see myself being involved with. Besides, with two fairly high-profile anti-civ journals already vying for people's attention and defining the parameters of debate between the various anti-civ tendencies, the amount of work involved in a new journal being able to create a unique identity for itself among an already over-saturated marketplace of ideas just seems like an uphill battle to me. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer or anything but, like KT said, you have to know what you're getting yourself in for.

None of this is to say that I would discourage anyone who is more motivated than me to take on a project like this from getting involved. On the contrary, if you're really down with the idea, then I encourage you to go for it. I just can't help but wonder if there isn't something more fundamentally wrong with the overall climate of debate within the anti-civ milieu than just not enough voices screaming in the wilderness. On the one hand, you have the folks over at Black Seed saying that JZ is just a stodgy old man that no one listens to anymore (a sentiment that, as much as I can sympathize with what's behind it, could be far more constructively expressed) and, on the other hand, you have KT on the latest episode of the BAGR Podcast saying that anyone who engages in "Philosophical" discourse is just some ivory tower intellectual who needs to give it a rest with all that pesky theorizing, get off their ass, and do something to further the revolt against civilization. Entering into such a hyperbolic climate in order to present a fresh perspective that people will hopefully engage with in an intelligent and constructive manner is, again, an uphill battle. You better be damn clear about what you're bringing to the table that differentiates your perspective from everyone else's and not get pulled into the mud-slinging and/or anti-intellectual moralizing that everyone else seems to be falling prey to.

And, while we're on the subject of hyperbole, I realize full well that I can get (and have gotten) just as caught up in it as anyone else. I try my best be open to hearing all sorts of different perspectives, but when someone gives me the impression that they're just spouting platitudes instead of formulating an actual argument, I don't have as much patience for it as, perhaps, I should. In any case, apologies for any time in the past when I may have been overly caustic in my comments.


Cheers,
Matt

P.s: In response to this,

alexander Wrote:A print journal or a purely digital journal seems like the best options. (Or a print journal which is digitised at some point.)

I would strongly urge you against going the route of an exclusively digital publication. Print just has more credibility.
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#23
Matt Wrote:You better be damn clear about what you're bringing to the table that differentiates your perspective from everyone else's...

Can I start with a tune from your countryman and my common stock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQldSi-heE

I don't feel there is any need to persuade the people that civilisation is irredeemable. Every body knows. What is needed is to present people with a template of an alternative to civilisation.

Please, no snide responses. If you think I'm childish or naive then please humble yourself and keep it to yourself.
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#24
(Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:27:23 +0000, 08:27 PM)KyXen Wrote: Please, no snide responses. If you think I'm childish or naive then please humble yourself and keep it to yourself.


Humility!? Awwww, do I have to?

Just kidding. Thanks for the musical interlude. Cohen's voice is like a warm cup of maple syrup on a cold winter morn. ;)
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#25
Not at all Matt but you do have to contribute to this new journal. THAT'S AN ORDER!!!!

The Supreme Commander of the Proletarian Dictatorship
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#26
(Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:27:23 +0000, 08:27 PM)KyXen Wrote: ...but you do have to contribute to this new journal.


Maybe I will and maybe I won't. At this point, I'm a little more interested in hearing Alex and some of the other commenters respond to some of the concerns that I raised in my previous post.
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#27
Yes, i would like to hear too. No point duplicating other's work.

I am settled on a title i would be happy with:

WE START FROM HERE
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#28
(Mon, 19 Feb 2018 01:30:52 +0000, 01:30 AM)Matt Wrote: Like Zhachev, I too have my critiques of both BAGR and Black Seed (one more so than the other) but, unlike him, I have my suspicions that another anti-civ journal might be just reinventing the wheel. It's possible that one of my reasons for saying this is just that I personally don't feel like I have the time, resources, or inclination to help get a project of this magnitude off the ground, particularly when we're all separated by such vast geographic distances. After reading Kevin Tucker's summary of his difficulties in getting BAGR up and running, I'm quite convinced that, beyond maybe submitting the occasional piece of writing, this isn't the sort of project that I can see myself being involved with. Besides, with two fairly high-profile anti-civ journals already vying for people's attention and defining the parameters of debate between the various anti-civ tendencies, the amount of work involved in a new journal being able to create a unique identity for itself among an already over-saturated marketplace of ideas just seems like an uphill battle to me. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer or anything but, like KT said, you have to know what you're getting yourself in for.

None of this is to say that I would discourage anyone who is more motivated than me to take on a project like this from getting involved. On the contrary, if you're really down with the idea, then I encourage you to go for it. I just can't help but wonder if there isn't something more fundamentally wrong with the overall climate of debate within the anti-civ milieu than just not enough voices screaming in the wilderness.
I'm sorry if you expected me to have any sensible "comebacks" to your interjections—I do not. In fact, I agree with them.

However, your focus here is on the "project", whereas I am primarily interested in the people. I wouldn't mind a failed project, or something that ends up doing something else entirely, if we felt that something meaningful had transpired between us as people in the process.

(Mon, 19 Feb 2018 01:30:52 +0000, 01:30 AM)Matt Wrote: I would strongly urge you against going the route of an exclusively digital publication. Print just has more credibility.
I would prefer print myself, but I am not entirely adverse to digital. It's not a "dealbreaker" to me.
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#29
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:19:52 +0000, 09:19 PM)alexander Wrote: I'm sorry if you expected me to have any sensible "comebacks" to your interjections—I do not. In fact, I agree with them.

However, your focus here is on the "project", whereas I am primarily interested in the people. I wouldn't mind a failed project, or something that ends up doing something else entirely, if we felt that something meaningful had transpired between us as people in the process.

And I get that. I guess my priorities just lie elsewhere. It's nothing personal against any of you, I just come to websites such as this for reasons other than forging friendships, which I generally prefer to do in real time and space. You all seem like perfectly decent, likeable people but my focus as far as this forum is concerned is more on quality discussion and the spreading of provocative ideas than anything else. Also, you shouldn't feel the need have any "comebacks" in response to anything that I said because none of it was intended to get a rise out of you. I just speak plainly sometimes because, when you're vague or skirt around the issue, it's all too easy to be misinterpreted - particularly on the internet.
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#30
(Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:31:26 +0000, 10:31 PM)Zhachev Wrote: I'm starting to believe more and more "quality discussion" isn't possible without a specific kind of human connection or relationship.

Likewise, but I have serious doubts that the internet is the place to find it.
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