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  Ecologist Says Trees Talk to Each Other in a Language We Can Learn
Posted by: BeerNRage - Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:37:05 +0000, 03:37 PM - Forum: Environment - Replies (1)

Interesting article.  More proof that trees are not just inanimate things standing there.


Quote:"She discovered birch sent carbon to fir, especially when it was shaded. Later the opposite happened, when the birch was leafless in the winter, the fir sent over more carbon. Science had always believed that trees competed with each other for carbon, sunlight, water and nutrients. Simard’s groundbreaking work showed that trees are interdependent and cooperative, in fact they are immersed in deep relationships with each other."

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  On Collectivities | Society Dispatch
Posted by: @demon - Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:48:21 +0000, 09:48 PM - Forum: Politics - No Replies

[Image: https://thesocietydispatch.files.wordpre...tudios.jpg]
I am not against collectivities completely in principle. In many cases, groups and classifications are brought to me rather than being chosen. This is where I stand on certain historical narratives, like dictatorship of the proletariat, insurrection, revolution and so on.
Large collectivities that are created by situations don’t need cheerleaders and should a dictatorship of the proletariat actually exist, the activities of eco-extremists would disappear within such a large collectivity. In the case of revolutionary or insurrectionary situations, obviously eco-extremist activities would hardly be noticed as the spread of destruction would be massified.
Which brings me to smaller collectivities, that of eco-extremism, that of attentat that of autonomous zones and that of mutual aid. Unlike the previous examples, these smaller examples are within my range to create. Massive collectivities,whether true or not, can’t be managed into existence nor controlled. This is perhaps where I have been most bothered by communism, including its left communist forms.
I see a situation in France with the yellow vests. We could debate the ins and outs of it, but it came into being by subjected forces and not because of active vanguards. I have not read deeply on the situation so I’ll leave my comment on that vague detail because it exposes a point.
We can create our own immediate worlds with other individuals as we desire. We need not be insurrectionary nor revolutionary nor approve or disapprove of the proletarian dictatorship. These mass concepts aren’t my enemy, but they are blinders. They harm our ability to see where our impact can be developed.
Eco-extremism is just a style of attack with a context, same with attentat actions that aren’t necessarily eco-extreme. Those that want to do these things, can do these things, but the consequences are just as extreme. This is discouraging, but I wouldn’t limit myself to this. This is where my point on other ways to connect comes in.
There are so many ways to grow and we can support each other instead of looking for how to manage each other. The ideas of finding ways to connect, to grow as both individuals and as groups that see in each other the universe, rather than see the group as one more vehicle towards a mass strategy with a mass goal.


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  Moving Asteroids for Cheap
Posted by: @demon - Sat, 15 Dec 2018 10:28:41 +0000, 10:28 AM - Forum: Science & Technology - Replies (2)

Here's something unbelievable: $224 million will get you a probe that can push an asteroid into any orbit you want. Meaning, theoretically, fucks knows which government has moved which asteroids to where.

Page 22 - http://kiss.caltech.edu/final_reports/As...report.pdf
The first time it was done, asteroid bigger than the one that killed the dinosaurs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEAR_Shoem...nd_landing

Just for good measure, North Korea is estimated to have around 10,000 artillery pieces. At a cost of $1,500-80,000 a piece. That means their whole arsenal is worth as little as $15,000,000. The upper range would be $800,000,000. So, obviously, moving asteroids is way cheaper.

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  Tribal people
Posted by: @demon - Fri, 14 Dec 2018 14:42:02 +0000, 02:42 PM - Forum: Anthropology & History - No Replies

Interesting exchange happening elsewhere I thought I'd share.

Anonymous Wrote:Permanent subsistence zones - PSZs have been put forward as an alternative/compliment to the TAZ. See "insurrectionary subsistence" efforts and this article from anarchist library: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/...ence-zones

Zhachev Wrote:We need tribal zones. Fuck this yippe bullshit, fuck Hakim Bey, too

Anonymous Wrote:With sedentary comes council tribalism. You are no nihilist.,.

Zhachev Wrote:I don't advocate sedentarism. And nah, don't tell me what to do or believe. I am my am-ness.

Anonymous Wrote:Listen your Am-ness, you call for tribal zones, that's tribalism, and all tribes have hierarchies. This leads to feudalism and municipalities, eventually Bookchin, who you can insert in your An-ness.

22:33 Wrote:I can see you instigating tribal warriors with yellow war stripes covering their naked bodies as they charge the police line. So damn medieval and nostalgic of you Baron Zhachev.

Zhachev Wrote:Y'all are just coming after me to come after me now. But that's fine, I do it too. Watch and read carefully how I totally dismantle your shit logic. You can, apparently, only understand the language of the State. You also clearly have no imagination and don't think yourself.

22:33 is making the classic mid-20th century Western (white) anthropological argument that bands or clans lead to tribes, tribes to chiefdoms, chiefdoms to states. This is meant to imply a reverse trajectory from the autonomic. It's progressivism. I reject the implication that once a society becomes a state, autonomy becomes irreversible. Everyone on this website should, as well. It is called ANARCHISTnews after all.

Tribal societies were autonomic societies. Many, if not most, especially before the emergence of civilization, were characterized by their egalitarianism — a combination of closeness and gentleness between those in-group, and a strong rejection of any authoritarianism. They lived peacefully in many cases, they lived happily, and there was a culture of companionship, shared activity, and a premium on autonomy. No one, not even children, were coercive, or felt the need to exert any form of other-control. This was a vigilant, active effort by tribal members. The primitive chief had no power, their word carried no force of law.

Societies maintained an appropriate degree of warlike attributes depending on their proximity to state organization. Those forced into enduring war were the ones more likely to form or succumb states. This zone at the far reaches of state and empire, before the tribal zone, has sometimes been called the barbaric or semi-barbaric zone, and these people are actually the greatest threat to civilization historically, but I digress. "The contra-historical society is any society that avoids or retreats from hierarchy, retreats from history, and the state." This should be viewed as "dynamic avoidance", an "aristocratic refusal" to get sucked into the games of the state at any level. These societies were anti-authoritarian, pro-actively, and avoided the stae cleverly. Some still do today (the uncontacted). They're not just stateless, they vigorously reject the state and are fully aware of its encroachments. They are consciously opposed to their subsumption into civilization.

A tribe is simply a bounded network, communities united by social and political ties, often sharing language and aspects of wider culture. Everyone is "economically" independent, there's no centralized hierarchy.

Our social existence is nothing but a creation in the minds of others. As soon as the state imagines a tribe relating to a states power, its driven to act towards the population like it was indeed a tribe. This can force the population to react in specific manners, and it's all a self-fulfilling process at that point, with the state filling in any blanks as to fit the "tribe" neatly in a box.

Tribal organization itself is a response to the state. Without any states, they're just people, living in communities. So please, cut your honkey-ass reified bullshit out. I need to get some sleep anyway.

Anonymous Wrote:Oh wow, classic noble savage fallacy disguised with stories from pulp-fiction monthlies of fiction-fantasy societies which existed in the mists of time before the arrival of the big bad white supremacist nasty tribes with scary big swords and big nasty chiefs hurting people, wow, what are you smoking warrior boy?

Anonymous Wrote:"A tribe is simply a bounded network, communities united by social and political ties, often sharing language and aspects of wider culture. Everyone is "economically" independent, there's no centralized hierarchy."
Like yeah, in your Disney conception of tribes, of course. But through history most tribes that anthropologists have studied were also bonded by hierarchies. The tribal culture is in itself the product of hierarchical arrangements and rituals.
All thanks to Zhachev, our regular trolls LeWay and SE no longer feel lonely here... :-/

Le Way Wrote:If Zhachev was meaning by 'tribalism' the association or union of individualists who adhere to no political or religious laws or ethics, then welcome aboard Zhachev to the ragged crew of those challenging the dogma and repitition of flawed social processes.

Zhachev Wrote:All anthropology is science fiction. But as far as fairy tales go, mine is more accurate.

"The tribal culture is in itself the product of hierarchical arrangements and rituals." That's what I'm arguing, too, genius. I just contend civilization and the state are the catalyst. And I have no idea how I'm trolling here. All I do lately is sit here and read and reflect and take notes. This is the "no life" you folks are persistently accusing me of having.

Anonymous Wrote:"All anthropology is science fiction. But as far as fairy tales go, mine is more accurate. "
Aaaah yes! It's the same old narcissist cult guru kicking in. Science is wrong but I, right. Because it's ME not dem!
You're another authoritarian dog, zhachev, in need of social enclosures that tribes are, so your power may, one day, expand upon others for more rob & rape. But that's not gonna happen because nobody likes you IRL.

Zhachev Wrote:Blatantly racist now. Unlike you lost purely European fucks, I still know the name of my tribal clan and where they came from in Palestine, and where they moved into Palestine from in the 16th century. You're interpretation of tribal people as "bad hombres", mobbers, rapists, etc., is blatantly racist and incorrect.

Le Way Wrote:So its true, your am-ness is not individualist consciousness, but the conspiratorial stain of megalomaniacal pride which would have all of us making you the chief.

Zhachev Wrote:Am-ness = daoist ziran.自然. As-it-is-ness. I appreciate all the shit I'm getting in many ways, as this is the type of anti-authoritarian practice tribal people did for millenia to avoid the emergence of despotism. I'm not a despot, though. I just want to fuck shit up and cause major chaos. Don't y'all?
Ddj 30:

A general is well advised
To achieve nothing more than his orders:
Not to take advantage of his victory.
Nor to glory, boast or pride himself;
To do what is dictated by necessity,
Not by choice.

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  Hadza hut building
Posted by: Odin - Wed, 12 Dec 2018 23:04:22 +0000, 11:04 PM - Forum: Skills & Decivilising - Replies (3)

A group of Hadza hunter-gatherers build a traditional hut from baobab branches, sisal plants and grass.


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  John Jacobi, Ted fan
Posted by: jacobi - Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:52:13 +0000, 08:52 PM - Forum: Introductions - Replies (8)

Hey, I'm John Jacobi. I spent a lot of time when I was younger putting Ted's writings online. Started a university group called "Freedom Club." etc. etc. I run a website called The Wild Will Project: http://www.wildwill.net 

NY Mag just featured me in an article about TK: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/t...lytes.html

I've seen this forum before, but expected it to die like the other anti-civ forums do. Happy to see that's not the case. 

Looking forward to some good discussions on here.

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  I really like the ideal of this place
Posted by: WasteLand - Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:41:37 +0000, 08:41 PM - Forum: Introductions - Replies (2)

I have to do something positive

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Posted by: BeerNRage - Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:25:02 +0000, 05:25 PM - Forum: Introductions - Replies (2)


I'm Beer & Rage.  I run a youtube channel where I talk about anarchy and stuff.  I've been into anti-civ ideas for a good decade now.  I've read AHAL three times, and am big into Perlman.

I've spent a decent amount of time in organized leftists groups/cults, and came to anti-civ ideas through anarchist activism.  I also write stuff sometimes. 

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxerb98...bUcY9AMkoA?

Blog - https://destroy.svbtle.com/

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  Anti-civ goes pop
Posted by: alexander - Wed, 12 Dec 2018 09:54:32 +0000, 09:54 AM - Forum: Everything else - Replies (22)

«Children of Ted: Two decades after his last deadly act of ecoterrorism, the Unabomber has become an unlikely prophet to a new generation of acolytes.»

This article has got Kaczynski, Jacobi, Kingsnorth, DGR, Atassa, ITS—in mainstream media. It's kind of odd. Of course it is missing Heidegger, Ellul, Camatte, Mumford, Illich, Næss, Watson, Perlman, Zerzan, Sale… any real seminal thinker you could care to name. To me this signals that the article is not primarily about ideas, but about this weird modern phænomenon that the mainstream doesn't fully understand. Still interesting though.


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  The Need for Method
Posted by: @demon - Wed, 12 Dec 2018 02:21:17 +0000, 02:21 AM - Forum: News & Action - Replies (10)

source - sent by a friend

The Need for Method
by Zhachev

As the level of popular combativity to the ecological crisis develops across the world, the need for action and theoretical clarity in the anti-civilization milieu is posed more sharply than ever. It is important that groupings should show themselves capable of drawing up a balance sheet of what has been achieved in this domain during the last two decades, and of learning its lessons for the future.

The grouping of ecoextremists can no longer be left to chance. It demands a consistent method, based on openness to debate, combined with a rigorous defense of principle.

Such a method must avoid two dangers: on the one hand, that of falling into “debate for debate’s sake”, mere academic chatter, in which everyone says what they like without any concern to establish a dynamic towards common action; on the other hand, the illusion that it is possible to engage in common work on a technical basis, without first being clear on principles — principles which can only be determined by open debate.

Ecoextremists have a task to accomplish: the permanent destruction of mass industrial civilization and his-story itself. In carrying out this task, our agency is presently extremely limited. Ecoextremists therefore have a responsibility to intervene against the continued destruction of the wilderness, in order to defend nature, and to work for the end of society.

We should be in no doubt about the eventual purpose of this aggroupment, which is the formation of a decentralized and highly coordinated armed fighting force, the last one, without which a successful defense of nature against the state is an impossibility.

The work of aggroupment has several facets, related but distinct:

- the integration of individual ecoguerillas into decentralized, highly-coordinated groupings, since the very principle of the defense of nature is that of decentralize collective action on the basis of a common commitment to the end of civilization;

- the groups emerging in the periphery of the most difficult conditions of material deprivation and political isolation can only survive, and play their role in the worldwide attack on the state and civilization, if they can break out of their isolation and become part of a wider movement;

- finally, all ecodefenders, and above all what we may term the old groups (those with a direct historical role in the defense of nature in the past) have a responsibility to show the rest of us that there is a fundamental difference, a clear line, drawn between all those groups and organizations which stand firm on the defense of nature without compromise, and those groups, organizations, and parties who are committed to the principles of non-violence, which we oppose. In other words, the ecoextremists must clearly delimit and defend a holistic, naturalistic, pluralist anti-political milieu.


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